Oof. This got long. Sorry. Feel free to delete it if you feel it is inappropriate for whatever reason; this is your journal.
The doctrine is so similar between the two that all she had to swear an oath to the Pope, and boom! Catholic.
Is it odd that I find that fact extremely absurd and mildly offensive? One's spirituality should be a personal, intimate thing. If one can become a member of a new organized religion as easily as "I swear allegiance to the Pope as the supreme and universal Vicar of Christ," that implies that neither the convert nor the organization are taking the process seriously. Alternatively, if the doctrines really are that similar, that points out the absurdity of their separation.
I'm generally not a huge fan of Orthodox Judaism, but they do do conversion correctly, in my opinion. Most of the rest of this paragraph is ganked from wikipedia: Orthodox Judaism tends to discourage conversion, encouraging instead that the potential convert find their path to God through being a righteous Gentile and observing the Noahide laws* and living a life of kindness, although most Orthodox rabbis will accept converts if they are persistent. The process is involved, though. Potential converts should desire conversion to Judaism for its own sake, and for no other motives. A male convert needs to undergo a ritual circumcision conducted according to Jewish law (if already circumcised, a needle is used to draw a symbolic drop of blood while the appropriate blessings are said), and there has to be a commitment to observe the 613 commandments and Jewish law. A convert must accept Jewish principles of faith, and reject the previous theology he or she had prior to the conversion. Ritual immersion in a small pool of water known as a mikvah is required. The convert takes a new Jewish name and is considered to be a son or daughter (in spirit) of the biblical patriarch Abraham, and a male is called up in that way to the Torah. Obviously, since there is not the same stron central authority that exists in Catholicism, the details of the process will vary from congregation to congregation.
Every convert (to any branch of Judaism, not just Orthodox) I've ever talked to has told me they've had to study for months or longer with their rabbi before converting, partially so they'd learn about Judaism, but also simply to test their resolve and commitment to the process. Admittedly, I am not as familiar with the process for someone who is converting from one branch of Judaism to another, and I think it's somewhat more lenient. But I also know some rabbis who make every effort to sit down for a few meetings with any new congregants, be they converts or not.
I'm not trying to imply that Judaism gets it right where nothing else does. I'm sure other faiths do just as good a job as Judaism. And I could criticize Judaism at length; I don't even consider myself Jewish anymore. But I was trying to think of an example of a well-designed conversion process, and I have more experience with Judaism than with other faiths.
* The Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח, Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach), often referred to as the Noahide Laws, are a set of seven moral imperatives which, according to the Talmud, were given by God to Noah as a binding set of laws for all mankind. According to Judaism any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a Righteous Gentile and is assured of a place in the world to come (Olam Haba), the Jewish concept of heaven. Adherents are often called "B'nei Noah" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and may often network in Jewish synagogues.
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Date: 2008-02-07 06:07 pm (UTC)The doctrine is so similar between the two that all she had to swear an oath to the Pope, and boom! Catholic.
Is it odd that I find that fact extremely absurd and mildly offensive? One's spirituality should be a personal, intimate thing. If one can become a member of a new organized religion as easily as "I swear allegiance to the Pope as the supreme and universal Vicar of Christ," that implies that neither the convert nor the organization are taking the process seriously. Alternatively, if the doctrines really are that similar, that points out the absurdity of their separation.
I'm generally not a huge fan of Orthodox Judaism, but they do do conversion correctly, in my opinion. Most of the rest of this paragraph is ganked from wikipedia: Orthodox Judaism tends to discourage conversion, encouraging instead that the potential convert find their path to God through being a righteous Gentile and observing the Noahide laws* and living a life of kindness, although most Orthodox rabbis will accept converts if they are persistent. The process is involved, though. Potential converts should desire conversion to Judaism for its own sake, and for no other motives. A male convert needs to undergo a ritual circumcision conducted according to Jewish law (if already circumcised, a needle is used to draw a symbolic drop of blood while the appropriate blessings are said), and there has to be a commitment to observe the 613 commandments and Jewish law. A convert must accept Jewish principles of faith, and reject the previous theology he or she had prior to the conversion. Ritual immersion in a small pool of water known as a mikvah is required. The convert takes a new Jewish name and is considered to be a son or daughter (in spirit) of the biblical patriarch Abraham, and a male is called up in that way to the Torah. Obviously, since there is not the same stron central authority that exists in Catholicism, the details of the process will vary from congregation to congregation.
Every convert (to any branch of Judaism, not just Orthodox) I've ever talked to has told me they've had to study for months or longer with their rabbi before converting, partially so they'd learn about Judaism, but also simply to test their resolve and commitment to the process. Admittedly, I am not as familiar with the process for someone who is converting from one branch of Judaism to another, and I think it's somewhat more lenient. But I also know some rabbis who make every effort to sit down for a few meetings with any new congregants, be they converts or not.
I'm not trying to imply that Judaism gets it right where nothing else does. I'm sure other faiths do just as good a job as Judaism. And I could criticize Judaism at length; I don't even consider myself Jewish anymore. But I was trying to think of an example of a well-designed conversion process, and I have more experience with Judaism than with other faiths.
* The Seven Laws of Noah (Hebrew: שבע מצוות בני נח, Sheva mitzvot B'nei Noach), often referred to as the Noahide Laws, are a set of seven moral imperatives which, according to the Talmud, were given by God to Noah as a binding set of laws for all mankind. According to Judaism any non-Jew who lives according to these laws is regarded as a Righteous Gentile and is assured of a place in the world to come (Olam Haba), the Jewish concept of heaven. Adherents are often called "B'nei Noah" (Children of Noah) or "Noahides" and may often network in Jewish synagogues.